'Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths'
With Bruce Feiler
Author
Wednesday, Sept. 18, 2002; 1 p.m. ET
The three major religions of the world -- Judaism, Christianity and Islam -- have a common ancestor: Abraham. While he is arguably the patriarch of all three faiths, as well as the source of conflicts among them, little is known about him. In "Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths," (William Morrow, 2002) author Bruce Feiler traveled through war zones, visited the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and Abraham's burial site in Hebron and interviewed the imam of the El Aksa Mosque in an effort to understand Abraham's role in both faith and history.
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Feiler was online Wednesday, Sept. 18, to talk about his journey.
Feiler will be in Washington, D.C. at Politics & Prose Bookstore on Thursday, Sept. 19, at 7 p.m. ET. He is a bestselling author of six books, including "Walking the Bible: A Journey by Land Through the Five Books of Moses," (William Morrow, 2001) which is the subject of an upcoming documentary. Other books include "Learning to Bow" (Ticknor & Fields, 1991) and "Dreaming Out Loud" (Spike, 1999). He is a contributor to National Public Radio and writes for The New York Times, The Washington Post and Gourmet magazine, where he is a contributing editor.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Washington, D.C.: Did the idea for this book come to you after what happened last Sept. 11 or before?
Bruce Feiler: After. I was working on the follow-up to "Walking the Bible" when I received a call from my brother on the morning of Sept. 11. "Look outside your window." I was in New York that morning, and watched the towers fall. We began to hear these questions: who are they? Why do they hate us? Can the religions get along? And one name echoed behind those conversations: Abraham. Abraham. Abraham. He is the shared father of Jews, Christians and Muslims. That means the biological father of 12 million Jews, two billion Christians and one billion Muslims, and yet he's virtually unknown. And so I wanted to know him, and to figure out whether he was a hopeless source of war, or could he be a vessel for reconciliation?
Alexandria, Va.: Do the Muslims believe that the Jews censored the Bible in order to remove references to the importance of Ishmael?
Bruce Feiler: The story of Abraham appears in its most complete form in Genesis. Abraham has two sons, Ishmael, who becomes the father of the Muslims, and Isaac, who becomes the father of Jews and Christians. The New Testament and the Koran refer back to the Genesis story, but don't re-tell it in a comprehensive way. They all agree that Genesis is the base account. Some Muslim interpreters of the Koran concluded that Ishmael was reduced in importance in Genesis. But the Koran itself stops short of saying that.
Washington, D.C.: It seems as though we're being inundated with talk about the violence associated with Islam, but in fact most religions -- have a tradition involving violence, either to gain power over land or perpetuate the faith. No one's innocent on this front. Can you talk a bit about violence in the history of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Bruce Feiler: Certainly, if you take a room and you say all religions that have violence in their past go to one side of the room, and all the religions that have no violence in their past go to the other side of the room, one side of the room will be empty. But to me, the interesting part of this story is that Abraham, who is the shared father of Jews, Christians and Muslims, is also the originator of using violence in the name of faith. Abraham nearly killed his first son, Ishmael, by kicking him into the desert. He nearly killed his second son, Isaac, in the famous sacrifice scene. So these stories are so barbaric, you would think they would have died out over time. Their persistence suggests that the balance between violence and faith and peace is as old as time.
Reston, Va.: While Abraham is undoubtedly a central, linking figure in the monotheist religions, I wonder if we couldn't also understand what links us if we connected and viewed our shared heritage through Sarah, Hagar and Mary?
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Bruce Feiler: The story of Abraham is definitely the story of his women. But I don't think it's necessarily a story of peace. The entire story of the Bible takes place on the Fertile Crescent. The upper arm is Mesopotamia, the lower arm is the Nile, the middle is the Promised Land. The story of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar reflects this perfectly. Sarah is from Mesopotamia, Hagar is from Egypt. They are struggling for control of Abraham because they are struggling for control of the Promised Land. And you can read the whole tensions of the region from antiquity to today in the struggle between Sarah and Hagar over who will dominate the Promised Land.
Washington, D.C.: May be a dumb question, but given the fact that the world's major monotheistic religions have a common ancestor, how did they come to preach the "our faith is the only true faith" doctrine?
Bruce Feiler: The battle among the monotheistic religions can be seen as a giant family feud with Abraham at the heart. God chooses Abraham to be his partner. All three religions agree that that moment is holy. All three religions want control of that moment. So their struggle over Abraham becomes a surrogate for their struggle over salvation. So "Ye who controls Abraham, controls God." So for many centuries, the idea has been the only way to have access to God is to denounce the other two claims.
We are seeing today, in the emerging interfaith movement, the first serious effort to change that conversation and to claim that all three religions can have equal claim to God.
Shepherdstown, W.Va.: When did you take this trip? Did it precede the current uprising?
Bruce Feiler: In the wake of Sept. 11, I decided I wanted to know more about Abraham, so I went back to the Middle East in the middle of the war. I went back to the text, and went deep inside myself to ask the question that countless generations have asked before: Can Abraham heal the world? And I wanted the story to contribute to the dialogue in the world today about that question. So I did it very intensely in the last year.
The last thing I describe in my book is a trip I took to Hebron, one of the bloodiest cities on the planet, and the epicenter of Muslim-Jewish warfare. I drove south out of Jerusalem on what's called the Sniper Road before I got to Hebron and the Tomb of the Patriarchs. The last time I was there, there were 10,000 Jews dancing at a celebration. This time, it was empty. Four armed guards had to escort me inside to where Abraham was buried. And I wanted to go, indeed I wanted to do this entire journey, because I wanted to test my sense of hope in the most hopeless place on earth. So that was the spirit of conviction that drove the whole project.
Harrisburg, Pa.: How can religions with such common basic concepts allow so much hatred between each other? I fear too many have lost themselves in arguing the nuances and debating their interpretations of the details of their religions that they have lost sense of the major purposes behind their religions.
Bruce Feiler: I think there is a fundamental tension between the stories in the Bible and even the Koran, and how the religions have reinterpreted those stories over time. Take Abraham. In the story, he is a universal figure who passes his blessing on to Isaac and to Ishmael and "all the families of the earth" are blessed through him. Over time, for their own reasons of rivalry, each of the three religions tried to override that story, and make Abraham exclusively theirs. Jews made Abraham into a Jew, Christians made him into a Christian, Muslims made him into a Muslim. In many ways, our task today is to rediscover and embrace the original, universal figure who's described in the story.
Alexandria, Va.: Do you think that a historical Abraham existed? If so, when did he live?
Bruce Feiler: There is no archaeological evidence that any of the events in the five books of Moses actually happened. Having said that, there are many historical details in the stories that probably would not have been known when the stories were written down in the middle of the First Millennium B.C.E. Scholars's best guess is that Abraham would likely have lived around 2000 B.C.E., given what was going on in the region when migrant families from Mesopotamia were traveling widely into Canaan. So I believe the stories have deep oral roots, even though we can't prove them.
This is a big theme of my previous book, "Walking The Bible."
Washington, D.C.: How does the Arab nation deal with Old Testament scriptures that clearly shows Abraham choosing to send away the son of Hagaar and his favor for Isaac or God's decision to choose the son of Sarah as his chosen people?
Bruce Feiler: I look at the story somewhat differently. The Bible usually treats people it doesn't like harshly. Abel is murdered; Lott's wife is turned into a pillar of salt. Ishmael is kicked out of the Promised Land, but he is never kicked out of the realm of Abraham's love and paternity. Nor is he kicked out of the sphere of God's blessing. Muslim and Jewish commentaries agree that once Ishmael was sent into the desert that Abraham went to visit him on numerous occasions. The Koran suggests that on one of these visits, while Ishmael was living in Mecca, Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka'ba, which is the black stone in the center of the holy mosque which all Muslims walk around during the pilgrimage.
Lexington Park, Md.: Does the story of Abraham have a polytheistic ancestor? Stories such as the flood in the Bible have common roots in Sumerian mythology (the myth from Gilgamesh). So is the Abraham story an original one, or maybe just the offshoot of some earlier myth?
Bruce Feiler: Much has been written about the similarities between the stories in Genesis and the Mesopotamian origin stories -- particularly with Noah and the Garden of Eden, and even Abraham on occasion. I actually think that the similarities, while compelling, are overshadowed by one enormous difference, which is that in the Mesopotamian stories, there are many gods. And in the stories in Genesis, there is one God. That is the historic break that the Biblical stories make. And all three religions agree that Abraham is the central figure in this break. That he, in effect, invented monotheism.
Alexandria, Va.: Do you think that Abraham was a Sumerian priest? Wasn't where he was born a cult center for the Sumerian moon-god?
Bruce Feiler: We don't know where Abraham was born. The text says that his brother was born in Ur of the Chaldeans, and his family was living there, but we don't know he was born there. Chaldea was known as a place of astronomy, which explains why many stories suggest Abraham knew much about the stars. But as for Abraham's profession, we have no clue. And I believe the text prefers us not to know, or it would have told us.
Rockville, Md.: Since when did Christians make Abraham into a Christian? The Old Testament in my Bible, and in all of the teachings that I have ever read, is the chronicle of the Jewish people, and Abraham appears there in Genesis. The New Testament is also a chronicle of primarily the Jewish people, who were called Christians by someone outside of their sect. Paul, a converted Pharisee, cites Abraham as the Father of the faith, but presents him as he was, a Jew. What is your evidence that someone has removed Abraham from his place in history. As a Christian, I have always, in churches around the world, met Abraham as a Jew.
Bruce Feiler: This was far and away the most startling and upsetting part of my research -- to read how early Christian writers, after the New Testament was recorded, used Abraham as a figure not to include Gentiles as Paul does in the New Testament, but to exclude Jews. These writers said God did not call Abraham to go forth in Genesis 12, but Jesus did. God did not promise the land to descendants of Abraham, but to followers of Jesus. I don't have time to go into it here, but I have discussed this with the leading Christian scholars and priests in the world, and I invite you to take a look at what they said.
And what they told me was this need not kill our hopes for coexistence. But it does behoove us to understand how Abraham has been used over time.
Virginia Beach, Va.: Is your book being printed in any other languages? I ask because you mentioned earlier that you hoped Abraham could be a source of reconciliation. Just wondering if this book will be available in predominantly Muslim and Jewish countries.
Bruce Feiler: That's a lovely thought. "Walking the Bible," my previous book, has been translated into a dozen languages. We already have translation rights in about half a dozen now, and somebody actually came up to me after my talk in New York City last night from Syria, and asked if he could translate the book into Arabic.
Bowie, Md.: Is there any historical link between the sun-worship monotheism of Pharoah Imenhotep and that which became the major Western faiths?
Bruce Feiler: I spent a long time looking into this question during my research for "Walking the Bible," during which I spent a long time in Egypt. I think the connection is intriguing, especially considering that Joseph, in the Biblical story, rises to become prime minister to the Pharoah. Could Joseph have been the reason the Pharoah proposed there was only one God? Because of the lack of evidence, we'll never know. But I do believe you can't understand the Bible without understanding Egypt.
Baltimore, Md.: In your travels and in interviews, did you find actual hatred among members of the faiths for one another? Was it more that they just believe the others are wrong?
Bruce Feiler: I found some instances of hatred. I went deep into East Jerusalem to meet a Muslim cleric. He was very friendly and open in our early conversation about Abraham, but over time grew more hostile and said that Jews and Christians were blaspheming God and would be punished. When I asked him if he was suggesting that something would happen to me, he said yes. I asked him what. And he looked directly in my eyes, and said, "You'll die." I began to wonder if I had been set up, and how I would get home. I eventually did get home, and just wanted to take a shower.
And the next day, [I] went to see the imam of Al-Aksa Mosque, the third holiest mosque in Islam, which is on the Temple Mount. He had never given an interview with a Western reporter. He was also stiff at first, but eventually told me we could ignore the details of the story and embrace the principles of Abraham, and this could be a foundation for unity.
I hold on to the balance of these two clerics as holding out the possibility for peace.
Arlington, Va.: Stupid question, I know. But did Abraham claim any particular religion?
Bruce Feiler: Fabulous question. No. Abraham would have lived 1500 years before the birth of Judaism, 2000 years before the birth of Christianity, and 2600 years before the birth of Islam. This is why Abraham is such a sterling figure to bring some harmony among the religions, because he existed before the rivalry of these institutions.
To embrace Abraham is to embrace no particular practices that we would associate with religion. All he did was build altars and make sacrifices. So he can be a sort of umbrella figure whose values -- morality, unity, coexistence -- are more important than his actual practices.
Forestville, Md.: Pertaining to violence and religion: Can it not be said, however, that eventually, the God of the Bible, began to eschew violence through the teachings of Jesus the Christ, while Allah, through Muhammed, never did? I know of no Christian scholars who claim that there are any supportable "good" reasons for the Crusades other than a bastardization and ignorance of God's word.
Bruce Feiler: I believe, as I have said, that there is a tension between the original stories in the text and the history of what believers of those stories have done. The leaders of all violent movements in the name of God justified their violence at one time or another in the words of Scripture. Violence is a part of human life, and I think that the Bible, as well as the Koran, understands that. That doesn't bother me. One of the things I find compelling about the stories is how they so reflect what's going on today.
Again, let's go back to Abraham. The text suggests Ishmael will father a great nation, but he will be in perpetual tension with the descendants of Isaac. Lo and behold, that's exactly what's happened. But at the end of Abraham's life, when he's buried in Hebron at age 175, in Genesis 25, Ishmael and Isaac stand side by side and bury their father. If they can forgive their father and make peace with each other, then we can too.
Alexandria, Va.: If all three religions see Abraham as a common ancestor and agree that he is responsible for monotheism, then why don't they agree that the one God is the same for all of us? Shouldn't Muslims think that we worship Allah, just in the wrong way perhaps? And shouldn't we perceive Islam as worshipping our God? Or am I just confused about what each religion teaches?
Bruce Feiler: I think that all three religions do agree that it's the same God. I don't think Allah is a different god than the God in the Hebrew Bible in the New Testament. Obviously, there is some dispute about the relationship between God and Jesus, but I think that certain basic elements of the story everyone agrees on. There is only one God. That God created the world. And later, that God chose Abraham to be his partner to spread his blessing to all humankind. And later, other prophets also had unique insights into the nature of God. It's in the area of these later prophets that these religions disagree. But they largely agree about Abraham, and they agree almost entirely about God.
Washington, D.C.: Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed "Walking the Bible." Looking forward to the documentary mentioned above.
Bruce Feiler: Thank you very much. "Walking the Bible" has been that writer's fantasy of a book that touches hundreds of thousands of people around the world. I have been moved and transformed by the experience. And hope you'll continue on the journey of "Abraham."
King George, Va.: Frankly, the snap accompanying the chat page does not suggest the insights you offer. (you must know Egypt) A bit about yourself, please.
Bruce Feiler: I grew up in Savannah, Ga. I have traveled to over 60 countries on five continents, and written now six books about entering various cultures around the world. I wrote a book about Japan, about England, about the American South, and I learned about Egypt like I learned about many things, which is by reading and traveling and talking to people. Which is the same methodology I undertook with Abraham.
Virginia: Are you planning any other books based on figures from the Bible and/or other ancient religious texts?
Bruce Feiler: I hope so. I would still like to do the follow-up to "Walking the Bible," and re-trace the rest of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. I am working on a documentary for "Walking the Bible," as was mentioned. But I am embarking today on a 35-city book tour to talk about "Abraham." And growing out of "Abraham," I am organizing a nationwide, grassroots series of interfaith discussions around Abraham, where volunteers are inviting 10-15 people into their home or local bookstore or church or synagogue or mosque, and talk about the three religions. There is no need to be an expert. We have a professionally designed packet that contains discussion question, passages from the text and a brownie and a baklava recipe from my friends at Gourmet. We already have participants in 17 states, plus Canada. And I invite you to join this exciting effort.
As we're wrapping up this chat, if you'd like more information about these "Abraham" salons, if you'd like my schedule or if you have a question you'd like to ask me directly, visit my Web site. I promise to answer every inquiry.
(washingtonpost.com: As noted above, Bruce Feiler will be at Politics and Prose on Thursday, Sept. 19) There is an interfaith discussion about the book at Washington Hebrew Congregation on Oct. 13: (202) 362-7100.
washingtonpost.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.
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